"And even smart girls can’t always tell a dangerous man based on a few days of texting. So tell people where you’re going. Keep your cell phone nearby. If you get a bad vibe, leave—even if it hurts his feelings."
- This. This triggers terrible memories of a guy "friend" of 2+ years scheming and hitting on me tactlessly, creepily. I had to hurt his feelings, and politely tell him to f*ck off when he tried to guilt-trip me. Men do that. Don't give in to his guilt-trips, especially if he was raised in a low-trust/misogynistic community (you know what I'm talking about).
Yes- it has more to do with the microculture these men have experienced at home, or the gross objectification of the female form (or any form these days) at the macro level. Either way, not our problem.
Really good points. I have repeatedly had older church people try to guilt and pressure me into dating guys I wasn’t attracted to, and then got mad at me when I wouldn’t. Like my God, the basic premise of marriage is *sex*. At the very least, I want a man I want to sleep with 🤷🏻♀️
Oh, and I have such a love/hate relationship with Lalaland. I loved it but it made me so mad. That was the perfect photo
Oh, I always am… and frankly, if they thought they had a chance, they wouldn’t be sending someone else to ask me out for them... It just creates an awkward situation using social pressure to make me look bad. (Kind of b* behavior, actually)
That being said, I even got a “I have a house and want a Greek wife. Let me call you and discuss” DM on FB a couple days ago. I’m surprised he didn’t DM my dad and ask him how many goats were in my dowry. Jesus
Don’t listen to men you aren’t dating IRL or related to about what they think makes a woman wifely. They lie. Just like women lie to men about what they want. Watch what they do. Ignore these dweebs online.
Dude, that was just an example. She doesn’t happen to like goats. You should ask her family of best friend about livestock preferences to avoid awkwardness.
It’s just not attractive when Christian guys go so old school they come off as trying to buy you to be their wife. It’s really uncomfortable, really really uncomfortable… Develope who you are as a man, and if you want farm animals, great, your future wife will probably like them too; but don’t approach a girl you find attractive that you haven’t spoken to before, with a list of assets. That’s actually kind of insulting
That’s fair enough. But if those are the men that are interested in you, past a certain age, it means that that’s the level you are at. Just like not every man can be Brad Pitt, not every woman can be Angelina Jolie.
Are you being serious right now? For a guy with a pen name and no face you certainly are a piece of work. Very simple fact: If a guy doesn’t have the 🏀⚾️ to ask a girl out, he’s not on her level. If you need somebody else to approach someone for you, that is using that person as a stepping stool.
I agree with you. My husband and I waited, and I for one am glad that I have no one to compare him to and vice versa. We learn together, just for each other. It means a lot.
Lots of good points and advice here; I appreciate the article. I just want to say, without absolutely defending it, that the red pill was modern solution to the modern problem of modern dating and the behavior of (some) modern women. Women have always been choosers in the mating/dating game and men have always carried the burden of performance and have to adapt to the rules and dating culture to that they find themselves in. (Not to say that women don’t have their own burdens to carry). As you said, at the end of the day, both men and women are trying to do their best to maximize their mating/dating strategy to benefit them the most.
This is pretty dam good Kristin, and a lot of it are the same questions for Men to consider too. The part that had me laughing my ass off was when you wrote about religion and the guy coming in the room with an Elephant head god 😆🤣.
I think you’re missing K’s point. If a woman suspects she might want children someday, then she should order her dating priorities as if it is a firm “yes”, because otherwise she’s likely to get into a world of hurt when she changes her mind and her husband / partner doesn’t
If you get into a relationship with a women with whom you slept with on the first date then you are a massive retard and deserve all the pain that will come your way
Ok, I agree. That isn’t really what I was commenting about. Admittedly I’ve never been enthusiastic about having sex on the first date. I can’t quite remember when I first had sex with my now wife, but it was basically when I was enthusiastic about it because I knew I wanted to marry her.
I really appreciate what you're doing here, with mostly solid advice for women looking to get married. I have to hard disagree with the "sleep with him on the first date". This is so dangerous. You haven't had a chance to really evaluate him as a safe person (that takes getting to know him in context of his friends and family, among other things!), much less as a guy you'd trust with your children if you get pregnant (even with perfect use, birth control isn't always guaranteed to work)! So you are, truly, risking pregnancy and then what? You get to be a statistic, the single mom who can't find a guy who wants to raise some other man's kid. Let alone the real risk of STDs (which lower your fertility), and the emotional impact -- women who are sleeping with multiple men who aren't their husband, prior to marriage, have much higher divorce rates when they do get married. The only place I've seen it work out is when the woman's husband, if they didn't wait till marriage, is the only man she slept with. I know a few long-term relationships like that. For my husband and I, we weren't perfect, but we did wait till marriage, and I am so glad we did, most especially because of how bonded we are to each other, how much I trust him, and because of all the previously mentioned safety issues. (I was married at 30 -- if I'd had previous sexual partners, I can only imagine how much harder it could have been to get pregnant.)
Man, I got married in 2019, right before COVID. I'm the last of the millennials (born 1996). Even I didn't realize the dating scene was so bad that these rules had to be laid out.
But wow, you should do pre-cana because that was the realest marriage talk I've ever heard, especially the importance of sexual attraction. Luckily, my husband and I were so attracted to each other we pissed off everyone around us while we were dating, but no one ever told me how important sex was. My husband unfortunately was raised with the idea that anything sexual is automatically bad, and we had to struggle with that alone for a long time.
My emotionally neglected Gen X parents told me next to nothing about marriage, except for my dad warning me that a guy you sleep with has no trouble leaving for any reason (thanks, Dad). I consider myself lucky I did as well as I did.
"Some people wait for marriage for sex, but they are rare. Yes, even in religious communities."
Rare indeed. The statistics I've seen say less than 5% of women are virgins at first marriage. It seems this is also true for men.
"When we have sex, we do release bonding hormones; men don’t."
While I believe sex is generally more significant to women, I think it's more complicated than you describe. Here is ChatGPT's perspective:
[tl;dr Men also have hormones associated with bonding released during sex.]
'Both men and women release bonding hormones during sex – especially oxytocin, often called the "love hormone." Here's how it works:
1. Oxytocin
Released by both sexes, but more so in women, particularly during orgasm, childbirth, and breastfeeding.
Promotes bonding, trust, and emotional closeness.
2. Vasopressin
Released more in men, and it's also linked to pair bonding and protective behaviors.
Plays a similar role to oxytocin in terms of emotional connection.
3. Dopamine & Endorphins
Involved in pleasure and reward, making sex feel emotionally significant for both partners.
Why the confusion?
Social narratives often say women "get attached" while men "just enjoy the act," but biology shows that both can form emotional bonds through sex – just not always in the same way or intensity, and not always equally based on hormones alone.'
Mostly solid advice. The red pill comment at the start is not accurate for men. (Men just are waking up the reality of what modern women really are instead of the chaste princesses we were taught they were.)
I would warn that absolutely a man will see you differently if you have sex on the first date. Of course, a man wants it, but usually that runs the risk of taking you out of the wife category and into the “recreational use” category. Not my term, just the messenger. Also, I would recommend if you are promiscuous be honest about it. Don’t lie about your body count, your roster, your one night stands, you’re drinking and partying days… Hiding that will make the break up that much more contentious and hurtful. Better that you find a man who doesn’t care about those things if you’re one of those women.
A married 29 years man’s opinion: there is a lot of good advice here. Unfortunately, when 20 something’s are in the dating pool, these points are oblivious to most of them, especially the males. I recently watched a YouTube video of a well known 20+ year divorce attorney talk about what he has learned from his cases. Very interesting. Data wise, he said the current divorce rate is around 53%. He added in another 10-20% who only stayed together because of the kids. So we end up with maybe 25ish percent who are happily married. Terrible odds. The advice in this column would at least help the female decision process. Males need their own version of this advice.
"And even smart girls can’t always tell a dangerous man based on a few days of texting. So tell people where you’re going. Keep your cell phone nearby. If you get a bad vibe, leave—even if it hurts his feelings."
- This. This triggers terrible memories of a guy "friend" of 2+ years scheming and hitting on me tactlessly, creepily. I had to hurt his feelings, and politely tell him to f*ck off when he tried to guilt-trip me. Men do that. Don't give in to his guilt-trips, especially if he was raised in a low-trust/misogynistic community (you know what I'm talking about).
Yes- it has more to do with the microculture these men have experienced at home, or the gross objectification of the female form (or any form these days) at the macro level. Either way, not our problem.
Really good points. I have repeatedly had older church people try to guilt and pressure me into dating guys I wasn’t attracted to, and then got mad at me when I wouldn’t. Like my God, the basic premise of marriage is *sex*. At the very least, I want a man I want to sleep with 🤷🏻♀️
Oh, and I have such a love/hate relationship with Lalaland. I loved it but it made me so mad. That was the perfect photo
You should be honest about why. The boomers refuse to accept the truth from young men.
Hi Optimus, can you clarify being honest about what?
Honest to those men, and to boomers asking, about why they’re being rejected.
Oh, I always am… and frankly, if they thought they had a chance, they wouldn’t be sending someone else to ask me out for them... It just creates an awkward situation using social pressure to make me look bad. (Kind of b* behavior, actually)
That being said, I even got a “I have a house and want a Greek wife. Let me call you and discuss” DM on FB a couple days ago. I’m surprised he didn’t DM my dad and ask him how many goats were in my dowry. Jesus
Don’t listen to men you aren’t dating IRL or related to about what they think makes a woman wifely. They lie. Just like women lie to men about what they want. Watch what they do. Ignore these dweebs online.
The sad thing is that this kind of thinking is prevalent in Christian guys, though
*scribbles furiously
No goats. Gotcha. This is good stuff!
*steeples fingers
What about… chickens?
Dude, that was just an example. She doesn’t happen to like goats. You should ask her family of best friend about livestock preferences to avoid awkwardness.
Animals are endearing…
It’s just not attractive when Christian guys go so old school they come off as trying to buy you to be their wife. It’s really uncomfortable, really really uncomfortable… Develope who you are as a man, and if you want farm animals, great, your future wife will probably like them too; but don’t approach a girl you find attractive that you haven’t spoken to before, with a list of assets. That’s actually kind of insulting
That’s fair enough. But if those are the men that are interested in you, past a certain age, it means that that’s the level you are at. Just like not every man can be Brad Pitt, not every woman can be Angelina Jolie.
Are you being serious right now? For a guy with a pen name and no face you certainly are a piece of work. Very simple fact: If a guy doesn’t have the 🏀⚾️ to ask a girl out, he’s not on her level. If you need somebody else to approach someone for you, that is using that person as a stepping stool.
I thought I was going to hate this. I like it.
I've got to stop clicking on things I think I'm going to hate, though.
Sleep with him on the first date? Dumbest advice I’ve ever heard.
Most of this is very solid and every single woman should read this. The only part I disagree with is sex before marriage.
My wife and I did even though we both believed we shouldn't, and she felt guilty every time, even for a few years after we married.
I agree with you. My husband and I waited, and I for one am glad that I have no one to compare him to and vice versa. We learn together, just for each other. It means a lot.
Yes! We are blessed that we are each other's only, but it still would have been better to wait.
Lots of good points and advice here; I appreciate the article. I just want to say, without absolutely defending it, that the red pill was modern solution to the modern problem of modern dating and the behavior of (some) modern women. Women have always been choosers in the mating/dating game and men have always carried the burden of performance and have to adapt to the rules and dating culture to that they find themselves in. (Not to say that women don’t have their own burdens to carry). As you said, at the end of the day, both men and women are trying to do their best to maximize their mating/dating strategy to benefit them the most.
This is pretty dam good Kristin, and a lot of it are the same questions for Men to consider too. The part that had me laughing my ass off was when you wrote about religion and the guy coming in the room with an Elephant head god 😆🤣.
"If your response is “Maybe,” “someday,” or “If I find the right man,” then that is a yes."
100% wrong. Maybe, someday, "if I find the right man" means no. At least from a man's pov and should be a red flag.
Well, it's a good thing this is an article written from a woman TO women.
I think you’re missing K’s point. If a woman suspects she might want children someday, then she should order her dating priorities as if it is a firm “yes”, because otherwise she’s likely to get into a world of hurt when she changes her mind and her husband / partner doesn’t
Actually really good advice. Men could take most of this to if they are looking for marriage and kids.
If you get into a relationship with a women with whom you slept with on the first date then you are a massive retard and deserve all the pain that will come your way
Ok, I agree. That isn’t really what I was commenting about. Admittedly I’ve never been enthusiastic about having sex on the first date. I can’t quite remember when I first had sex with my now wife, but it was basically when I was enthusiastic about it because I knew I wanted to marry her.
I really appreciate what you're doing here, with mostly solid advice for women looking to get married. I have to hard disagree with the "sleep with him on the first date". This is so dangerous. You haven't had a chance to really evaluate him as a safe person (that takes getting to know him in context of his friends and family, among other things!), much less as a guy you'd trust with your children if you get pregnant (even with perfect use, birth control isn't always guaranteed to work)! So you are, truly, risking pregnancy and then what? You get to be a statistic, the single mom who can't find a guy who wants to raise some other man's kid. Let alone the real risk of STDs (which lower your fertility), and the emotional impact -- women who are sleeping with multiple men who aren't their husband, prior to marriage, have much higher divorce rates when they do get married. The only place I've seen it work out is when the woman's husband, if they didn't wait till marriage, is the only man she slept with. I know a few long-term relationships like that. For my husband and I, we weren't perfect, but we did wait till marriage, and I am so glad we did, most especially because of how bonded we are to each other, how much I trust him, and because of all the previously mentioned safety issues. (I was married at 30 -- if I'd had previous sexual partners, I can only imagine how much harder it could have been to get pregnant.)
Man, I got married in 2019, right before COVID. I'm the last of the millennials (born 1996). Even I didn't realize the dating scene was so bad that these rules had to be laid out.
But wow, you should do pre-cana because that was the realest marriage talk I've ever heard, especially the importance of sexual attraction. Luckily, my husband and I were so attracted to each other we pissed off everyone around us while we were dating, but no one ever told me how important sex was. My husband unfortunately was raised with the idea that anything sexual is automatically bad, and we had to struggle with that alone for a long time.
My emotionally neglected Gen X parents told me next to nothing about marriage, except for my dad warning me that a guy you sleep with has no trouble leaving for any reason (thanks, Dad). I consider myself lucky I did as well as I did.
"Some people wait for marriage for sex, but they are rare. Yes, even in religious communities."
Rare indeed. The statistics I've seen say less than 5% of women are virgins at first marriage. It seems this is also true for men.
"When we have sex, we do release bonding hormones; men don’t."
While I believe sex is generally more significant to women, I think it's more complicated than you describe. Here is ChatGPT's perspective:
[tl;dr Men also have hormones associated with bonding released during sex.]
'Both men and women release bonding hormones during sex – especially oxytocin, often called the "love hormone." Here's how it works:
1. Oxytocin
Released by both sexes, but more so in women, particularly during orgasm, childbirth, and breastfeeding.
Promotes bonding, trust, and emotional closeness.
2. Vasopressin
Released more in men, and it's also linked to pair bonding and protective behaviors.
Plays a similar role to oxytocin in terms of emotional connection.
3. Dopamine & Endorphins
Involved in pleasure and reward, making sex feel emotionally significant for both partners.
Why the confusion?
Social narratives often say women "get attached" while men "just enjoy the act," but biology shows that both can form emotional bonds through sex – just not always in the same way or intensity, and not always equally based on hormones alone.'
Mostly solid advice. The red pill comment at the start is not accurate for men. (Men just are waking up the reality of what modern women really are instead of the chaste princesses we were taught they were.)
I would warn that absolutely a man will see you differently if you have sex on the first date. Of course, a man wants it, but usually that runs the risk of taking you out of the wife category and into the “recreational use” category. Not my term, just the messenger. Also, I would recommend if you are promiscuous be honest about it. Don’t lie about your body count, your roster, your one night stands, you’re drinking and partying days… Hiding that will make the break up that much more contentious and hurtful. Better that you find a man who doesn’t care about those things if you’re one of those women.
Courtship is a positive-sum game, if you do it right.
A married 29 years man’s opinion: there is a lot of good advice here. Unfortunately, when 20 something’s are in the dating pool, these points are oblivious to most of them, especially the males. I recently watched a YouTube video of a well known 20+ year divorce attorney talk about what he has learned from his cases. Very interesting. Data wise, he said the current divorce rate is around 53%. He added in another 10-20% who only stayed together because of the kids. So we end up with maybe 25ish percent who are happily married. Terrible odds. The advice in this column would at least help the female decision process. Males need their own version of this advice.
Kudos for mentioning Skyrim. That alone legitimizes this piece😭